Raylan13

I just go into the skins and screenshot, then crop. The pose is virtually identical, so long as I don't move the character around. The only time this is a problem is with heroes like Brightwing who constantly flap no matter what :P

I've placed the Italian language link on the bottom of our main page with the others ;)

Fantastic! Thank you! :)

I certainly can ;)

It is very difficult indeed! Another team actually came in and did the lion's share of the work on that - especially the technical aspects - and I just did some polish.

You would need the following in order to get it to work:

• Heroes
• CSS from MediaWiki:Wikia.css; the section titled "Hero selector CSS", making sure to change urls where needed
• JS from MediaWiki:Wikia.js, keeping in mind it has to go through an approval process before going live

I think that's it :P

Very hard! We try! Thank you bro :)

No problem ;)

Good to see it was solved :)

Chances are they'll rename it, but in the meantime, just put Lunara's under Rampant Growth (Lunara)

I'm going to have to veto the infobox use on hero pages :P I've found the opposite to actually be true with users; in fact, I'm in the very laborious process of converting over an entire site that used something similar. The old admins departed and new users just threw up their hands because all they wanted to do was edit a single card page, not hunt down what template linked to it.

That being said, I do like the idea presented at the bottom of the Hero page. It's unlikely that sweeping changes would ever be made to the hero data page, so all we'd really need to do is stay on top of the new heroes that come out.

My English parser is struggling with your second paragraph. You like what's at the bottom of the Hero page, but you would prefer it not come from an independent repository?

Also just out of curiosity what is the other wiki you're having to convert back?

I do like what's at the bottom of the page and it can come from the repository :P

But you would not like other things generated from repository data?

On another note, then, there are some aspects of my variant infobox that may still be desirable. For example, it automatically generates the health regen value (since it's the same for everyone but Murky), has a static entry for movement speed (so it's always displayed, but doesn't have to be input as a parameter), and dynamically shows mana/brew/fury info based on a resource parameter. It also separates the "base" and "per level" values of damage and health which means their formatting wiki-wide can be conveniently changed and consistent.

"But you would not like other things generated from repository data?"

So long as it isn't about the infoboxes, I'm interested in any other ideas you have.

As for infobox tweaks, remember that we're using the new Portable Infobox markup.

Ah, I'd rather not do the repository data if it will just be redundant.

I am indeed using the portable markup, probably not exactly in the intended manner but nevertheless it looks just fine in smartphone mode.

My bad - was flying out the door to an appointment.

For portable infoboxes, we try to avoid parser functions as much as humanly possible. The simplest way to express info is preferred, especially with new uses for that data coming down the line.

Is there someplace that more comprehensively details future plans for portable infoboxes? I have no problem using them but preliminary searching has only given me information on current implementation syntax instead of background, philosophy, and intent.

I think the video here might shed some light on it.

In the future they'll serve as the mechanism for the collation and presentation of data - kind of like you've done with the hero chart - and they'll also enable data presentation across a variety of devices. People understandably think that just means mobile and desktop, but it means much more than that. Essentially it enables us to present the data through any device that has access to the internet.

Excellent video, thank you.

Clarification: The following wall of text is in light of {{hero data}} not being used. So, standard per-page info as you intend.

As I see it, the infobox markup is still under heavy development, and its developers intend to further expand and adapt it in order to account for unusual cases. In our case, the two things that don't have full support are:

1. Multiple data sources in a single element (e.g. health at level 1 + health per level). The video mentions the ability to perform queries, and in our case that might look like "heroes with highest health," which is difficult for a computer to ask when "health" looks like "740 (+120)". Such functionality doesn't yet exist, but when it does, having "base health" and "health per level" as separate data sources will be important. So, even though it's not technically proper infobox markup, I feel we should presently have a "{{{health}}} (+{{{health_inc}}}" kind of format until better support arrives; when it does, it'll be an easy transition. tl;dr separate variables for the base/increment values of scaling stats like damage and health
2. Conditional, but non-variable, data (e.g. "resource" is set to "mana" so set "mana" to 500). As you know, I'm more than happy to omit this kind of data, but if it must be displayed then it should at least be displayed in a not-generally-editable way. If level 1 mana is presented as "hey, here's an infobox parameter" then editors may go and set the mana value to 500 for everyone, but then if Blizzard makes a change to starting mana, that's dozens of heroes that need to be edited when it really should have been in one spot because it's a consistent resource. For unconditional non-variable data (movement speed) it's no problem because it's always there and it's always displayed, but because having a mana value is conditional upon having mana in the first place, that's really only well-handled by parser functions. tl;dr ParserFunctions aren't ideal but result in the least maintenance with the most consistent presentation

tl;dr tl;dr we should get as close as possible to current "correct" infobox implementation while remaining practical

For now let's leave the infoboxes as they are - there are more important matters to contend with at present. For instance, the talents table needs to be converted to something that retains its look, but works on mobile.

I'll toss your first suggestion over to the guys working on the boxes to see what their opinion is on the matter. I already know their response to the second, which, as mentioned, is to avoid parser functions, even if it makes things a little more labor-intensive (which I'm perfectly fine with handling).

What I meant was that both points are valid use cases that are not currently covered by proper infobox markup. I would love to use exclusively proper infobox markup, so having both of these points implemented would be ideal. That is to say: I agree, we should avoid parser functions, and if the markup itself can perform the same task, that would be wonderful.

Regarding the talents, I never understood why they were organized as such anyway. I feel like a standard list with show/hide buttons for each talent level would be plenty sufficient.

They're organized vertically by tier and horizontally by progression level.

I know how it's organized, but not why it's organized that way. Is a partitioned list of shown/hidden levels so bad? It exposes the talent content to the page for editing, preserves the top-down flow of the rest of the page, and uses a function already built into Wikia (the show/hide function), which I can only presume works fine on mobile.

The internet being what it is, I'm not certain how to interpret the tone here, so I'm just going to back out of this thread for a while.

It is safe to assume at all times that my tone is one of curiosity, exploration, and experimentation. Any sense of aggression is not intended, and is a byproduct of my tendencies of forthrightness and intellectual confidence (not to be confused with intellectual rigidness). If nothing else, interpret my phrasing as if I am on the autism spectrum: at face value, with no connotations or subtle implications.

More specifically, if you're referring to the italics in my previous post, they were only there to emphasize the words I was comparing; I was not, and am not, upset or anything.

I just love wikis, man :]

The sections are supposed to stretch the entire width of the box - making those changes left black, unused space to the right within the tables.

That's strange, because I'm seeing black, unused space on my end and that's what I was originally fixing. Now I'm officially confused. Do you know why I'm seeing black where there shouldn't be any?

For reference, this is what I see:

http://puu.sh/l2vn8/39d1bcada8.png

That is indeed strange o.O Are you viewing it on desktop or some other device?

Apparently on Firefox it's showing as fine on my end - but when I check Chrome I'm seeing the same black spaces you are. I'm going to give it a whack tomorrow.

They should be showing correctly across all browsers now. I'll take a look in this next week and make sure the remainder of the talent sections do likewise ;)

Yeah, I'm using Chrome on Desktop. I'm checking everything now. 

Sorry for the late responses, getting caught up in so many things at the same time. :P

Thanks for the speedy replies though.

I've gone ahead and compiled a list of any character page that has this same problem for me on Chrome. 

Anub'arak, Arthas, Brightwing ETC, Azmodan, Gazlowe, Illidan, Jaina, Johanna, Kael'thas, Kerrigan, Kharazim, Li Li, Malfurion, Muradin, Murky, Nazeebo, Raynor, Rehgar, Rexxar, Sonya, Stitches, Sylvanas, Tassadar, Lost Vikings, Thrall, Tychus, Tyrael, Tyrande, Uther, Valla, Zagara, Zeratul.

It's likely that this problem is caused because these pertinent talent tables have rows that have 5 talents rather than the usual 3-4. 

Thank you - that helps immensely. I'll tackle those next week ;)

Should all be fixed now ;) Let me know if there are others you run across.

While it may be true about the background, the ratio between the surrounding white text and proposed link color would only be 2.7, which also must be taken into consideration, else it will blend with the normal text.

If you can find a happy medium between the two, it's certainly worth considering.

The ability to discern a difference between shades is much easier than the ability to read without straining. After all, if the contrast ratio of link text to background was 2.7:1, you'd definitely be able to see something is there, but it would require much more effort to actually read.

This is kind of a subjective measure but I've been using a monochromatic filter plugin for my web browser, and this is how a page looks while using the lightest link text mentioned above: [1]. It is fairly close, but I feel it nicely straddles the line between easy-to-scan-for and not-distracting-from-body-text. (For comparison, the current color: [2].)

A touch darker would be nice. How does this color look to you? #D666FF

I suppose I can't complain. Go for it :)

We're pretty happy with the way the current infoboxes are. When they were first created there were differences in movement speed (Abathur and Falstad come to mind) and there's no guarantee that won't change down the line. The same can be said of mana. Even if they remain the same, people do like to see the stats anyway, since visitors generally don't have that memorized.

For the abilities section - while I do agree that yours is more aesthetically pleasing, the current model works very well on mobile, which is something that has to be kept in mind across all sites going forward. You can actually hop onto your phone and take a look at it for yourself to note the differences ;)

Our talents section, however, doesn't work on mobile without side scrolling :( If you could find a way to keep the current look on desktop but make it mobile-friendly, that would be greatly appreciated.

My disagreement with showing the redundant data is that it implies the data is different between heroes. Sure, the movement speed is precisely 4.398 (or whatever) but does that number actually mean anything to someone looking at the statblock? In the case of a particularly curious player, they should be able to find that information on, say, a movement speed page (which can also have other useful things like a list of abilities that affect movement speed). Similarly, health regeneration and info on mana can be found on their relevant pages. An infobox should provide key information with limited effort from the reader. A player looking for an important piece of data used to alter their strategy against a target shouldn't have to wade through four lines of information that are identical for all heroes. If movement speeds stop being identical, then that can be addressed when it happens, but in the meantime I feel that displaying it actually causes more confusion.

Regarding ability blocks, I took a shot at a visual redux of the current one which can be found at User:ProtonZero/Skill. It looks nice and clean in the mobile preview.

• Changed the markup from table to div because tables are yucky.
• Decreased font size slightly to match infobox data (a visual cue that the reader is once again looking in an area with high information density).
• I changed the width from width:x% to max-width:440px, which yields the desired effect on large screens without crippling itself on small screens.
• Separated the resource cost from the resource type. This is useful if anything wants to use the data for math purposes, or if in the future the wiki decides to use something else to denote the resource type (such as an icon).

I'm going to have to continue to disagree about the infobox content. If all we're talking about is four lines, it literally takes less than a second to skip them. If we were talking about a paragraph on a page, then I'd agree that it would be more confusing.

As for the skill template, I'll have to take a look at it in-depth, probably next week, but here are some initial thoughts:

• I'm not beholden to tables by any means.
• Let's stay with default font size. That can certainly be a topic of discussion later, but for now I'd like to see how it looks.
• Looks great on mobile.
• Max % is preferred due to the fluid layout. Larger screens need to use the full width. The reason it's a variable right now is so the abilities section can nestle right next to the infobox rather than having an enormous gap.
• Cost/type suggestion seems reasonable to me.
• I haven't delved too deep into it, but if we can in any way use the same variable names as the existing template, that would cut down on work if/when there's a carryover to a new template. Like I said, I haven't jumped into the code yet, so if you already did that, then ;)

• Using the full width of the page reduces the readability of short paragraphs, and alters the aesthetic to be less visually balanced within the ability block. I changed the width from 440px to calc(100% - 285px), which will set it to the exact amount of room left over from the infobox (270px width plus 15px padding), so it ranges from 433px to 573px as needed.
• I returned the font size to normal.
• The variable names are all the same, but the resource and cost of each ability will need to be updated throughout the wiki.

• I see your point, as much as I loathe blank space :P Seems like a good idea.
• Yep, let's keep that font size.
• Good to know; can you make the resource/cost the same blue color as it is now, and then pick another color for cooldown?

Once that's done, feel free to implement. We can then go through and update resource and cost variables.

Implemented.

Regarding text color, I had originally matched the color usage of the in-game ability descritions, where the resource cost is highlighted the same as numbers in the description. Is the cyan shade appropriate for brew and fury? I'm also not sure what color cooldown should be, so I just defaulted to white for the moment.

Also, do you have any aversion to the {{ap}} template for highlighting and formatting numbers in ability descriptions? It allows for easy color customization later, and you can also easily change how you want to format numbers that increase with level. For instance, instead of "110 (+10 per level)" you could do "300 (100 + 10 per level)" if you wanted values normalized for level 20, or "110–400" if you wanted to show a range from level 1 to 30.

I'll have to hop in later to the game, but iirc the resource colors are the same. I'll check on that and cooldown color tonight, as it's simple enough to pop in later.

Whoops, I didn't realize you'd already replied, and I significantly altered my previous post.

No worries :P I've no problem with the ap template.

I'm not going to worry too much about the font colors. In-game, the resource/cost is the lighter blue, while the cooldown is the darker blue seen in the talent template. But how it looks right now is fine.

That being said, it appears the icons aren't lining up correctly for some reason: Zeratul#Abilities.

Ah, I see. I'm not at my computer for a few days, but my best guess is that the icons are trying to clear on the right in such a way that it pushes below the infobox. The precise markup generated by the image wikitext would need to be analyzed.

Resolved. The built-in image alignment thingy sets both float:right and clear:right, and the latter was pushing the icons down below the infobox. I rearranged the code so the image itself isn't declared as floating to the right, but instead is inside a <div> that floats to the right, without the clear:right. Sorry that took so long for me to get to.

Excellent :) Thanks for poking it!

since the last time, I a bit understand Heroes (Templates), I talked with Hawki and code designer(Jorge and his team), to get permission to take the code to my Wikia, thankfully they both are positive(allowed me) but I want also have your persmission before doing anything(if possible), cuz you are one of the main admins here and also thanks to you, I learned this kind of design. so can(/may) I use my sandbox to learn those code here? and can I later take it to my wikia?

Thank you alot for visiting us

J  

As long as nothing is changed here with the original template, I've got no issue with it :)

Thank you Raylan13 ^_^

I won't add/Remove/Change anything, things only happen in my sandbox not anywhere else(Page/Templates).

Thanks again.